“Every single person has a purpose. And if you don’t know what that purpose is, then your purpose is to find your purpose. Don’t get guilty, don’t beat yourself up over it. Just simply go on a journey.” –Dr. Ken Keis
Perhaps most of us have been caught up in the mundane activities of this life that we no longer try and find out our purpose in life. Don’t give up. Listen in to today’s episode and find out how to master yourself, be aware of your own perfect style and choose a career that satisfies your purpose. Our guest, Dr. Ken Keis also talks about honoring diversity, device addiction and not underestimating your influence. Your life is only as purposeful as how you make it. Honor yourself with the purpose you set.
Listen to the podcast here:
00:51 A Quest for Purpose
08:17 Your Purpose- Self-Centered vs. Self-Honoring
16:28 Why Aren’t You More Like Me
28:49 The Loneliest Generation
34:36 Never Underestimate Your Influence
40:40 Honoring Diversity
48:46 Start Your Quest
What’s your purpose in life? Whether you have one or still finding one, this podcast is for you. Join @myexpectation and @crgleader as they speak about living on purpose in a self-honoring perspective. #purpose #self-centeredORself-honoring… Click To Tweet
“Our highest level of contribution is when we’re in our purpose, not from a self-centered point of view, but from a self-honoring point of view.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“Every single person has a purpose. And if you don’t know what that purpose is, then your purpose is to find your purpose. Don’t get guilty, don’t beat yourself up over it. Just simply go on a journey.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“The majority of the things that we worry about never come about.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“If you live in fear, you are not going to realize your potential. It’s just not going to happen.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“Every single person on the planet seems to have an opinion. Very few people have wisdom.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“A lot of times people love the certainty of misery versus the misery of uncertainty… Then leave it and try and find something else that’s more fulfilling. And I think that’s a disservice to all of us, especially the person.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“Nobody offends you, nobody upsets you, nobody creates this irritation on you unless you let that happen to yourself. You are 100% responsible for your response.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“The problem is most people practice being irritated… We’re practicing this sort of negative response and then we bring that into our relationships and we wonder why people don’t like us or we don’t get along with other individuals.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“You can’t manage yourself if you cannot identify your emotions and what your feelings are and do it accurately.” –Art Costello
“It’s about managing what your processes are and what your thoughts and how you express them. I think it’s the key to happiness.” –Art Costello
“If you can learn how to manage your emotional intelligence and your feelings and identify them and stop trying to change somebody because you cannot be responsible for changing anybody except yourself.” –Art Costello
“Never underestimate the power of an encouraging word or a discouraging word at anytime and any person’s life especially if you’re in a place of leadership and they’re vulnerable in some form or another. I think a lot of times people underestimate the influence they might have.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“Your personal style is the perfect combination for the assignments that you have been given or your purpose in life. So I don’t think there are accidents… You have the perfect personal style.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“I do believe that personal style or personality assessments should not determine a career, but it does determine the nature of the role within the career.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“It’s the responsibility of the teacher for people to learn. It’s not the responsibility of the learner to capture it.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“We believe in developing the whole person. And so any single assessment or any sort of single area is not really honoring the diversity.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“You can’t blame anybody else that’s up for yourself.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“You matter… You need to do the work to get clear. If you are unclear, that is your work.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“So be committed to developing yourself, to serving. Allow yourself to fail along the way, figuring out what you don’t want to do. Take that off the list and move towards at a higher level contribution so that you can feel fulfilled his life.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“Go make this all worthwhile by making a choice to do something.” –Dr. Ken Keis
“A lot of people talk about it; very few people go out and do it. So let’s become doers.” –Art Costello
Art Costello: Welcome to the Shower Epiphanies Podcast. Today I am honored to have Dr. Ken Keis. He’s the foremost global authority on Behavioral Assessment Strategies And Processes, and an expert in leadership, purpose, and wellness. He’s authored over 4 million words, a very pertinent content, including 500 articles, 4 books, and a dozen assessments to help others realize their full potential. He’s the President and CEO of Consulting Resource Group International, Inc.(CRG). And I am honored to have you on the show today, Dr. Keis.
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I’m honored to be here, Art, and be able to serve as best as we can.
Art Costello: We’ll change the lives because our backgrounds are very similar in a lot of ways. Can you tell us just story?
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I’m here in Canada, in Vancouver, so don’t hold that against me though. My brother-in-law lives in Seattle, so we have lots of fun. I am eight minutes from the US border, so I just call myself a cross border guy, legally. So with that, I actually grew up on a dairy farm. I am the third generation firstborn male, eastern European descent. So after I finished agricultural college, I went and joined my family farm, but after my dad and I were beating on each other daily and arguments on how to run the farm, I left a couple of years after that. So, I started my own dairy farm, but I went into agricultural sales, and also work for the department agriculture. And when I was in agricultural sales, they’re actually, let’s go back. I was in the 4-H program and was successful in that as a youth program in rural Canada. I even knew at 16 that I wanted to be a speaker, but I didn’t really know how that was going to manifest or show up. So in my late 20’s, I quit my sales job and started my sales training company. And in fact as we record the show Art, this is my 30th year in this industry.
Art Costello: Wow. That’s a long time.
Dr. Ken Keis: And it was interesting. So I moved into doing the sales training, coming from being a sales professional that went well. And it’s interesting as you think about serendipity, or you know, just God’s hand, if you want to call it that, which I believe is, I met Dr. Terry Anderson who founded consulting resource group a couple of years later, and he was in the same community, and he founded CRG because he wanted to create assessments that for the learner to really help them improve their relationships. So it’s not something that I did to you, it’s something I did with you. And so anyways, I met him at a chamber event and two weeks later we joined forces. I hung out with his vice president of marketing for him and his company. And then I was blessed in 1992 with a project work with Chrysler. And a year later, they asked six people back, and I was one of those six people. And then we had the sole source for all the soft skills for Chrysler. So with a partner, we developed all the leadership, all the customer service, all the communications. And it was at that time were using, you know, personality assessments, et Cetera, et Cetera, sales assessments. And while I was very blessed, but I was on the road 300 days a year Art, and I know you do a lot of work around relationships. While it nearly cost me my marriage, I had two young children, I did call home every day. Now when I started in this industry Art, we are, people don’t know, but we’re on zoom. We are recording this, were seeing each other as we chat. This didn’t exist 30 years ago. I flew and commuted from Vancouver, from the West Coast to Detroit for a year every week because we didn’t have internet. And so I was the program designer. I had to physically go, and people who were working on this thing called Apple iMac and developing the programs. But after being on the road, 1500 days in six, or seven years nearly cost me my marriage. So I was thankful, and don’t take it the wrong way, but after 9/11 the next week they canceled my contract, and we have 12 full time people that were working for us, and really at that time my profession switched, from really a speaker who was writing to a writer that speaks. So I went and I bought CRG, which is our assessment company, and we have the tools on us on wellness, and leadership, and self worth, and values, and job fit. And I moved into and I spent 10 years rewriting the content of the assessment company, which I bought from Dr. Terry Anderson who founded it. So it was interesting how that single meeting that had happened nearly 28 years previous had led into, and now I purchased CRG in 2002, and how many years later?, 17 years later we, here we are. And you know, for those people that are listening Art, in grade nine, my English teacher said I would not amount to anything. And the reason being is, I couldn’t read or write, and discovered when I did my master’s degree that I was dyslexic. So there was this correction called the computer where I could type, and little red lines would appear underneath, or other suggestions. I, by the way, your grammar sucks. And so as a result of that, I started to write, I was writing on the computer and it’s interesting. I never at 16, 17, 18, 20, 25 even would have ever thought that I would be a writer. And it’s one of the things I enjoy. I enjoy speaking to large groups the most, and just the energy, and the interaction, and the ability to serve people in that context. But after that, I just really do enjoy writing.
Art Costello: It’s really interesting to me, how the transition over a period of years like that bring you to your purpose, and when you really find your purpose, no matter how much you’ve been discouraged by other people, when you find your purpose, it starts a fire in the soul and it grows. I didn’t find it until I was 63 when my wife passed away.
Dr. Ken Keis: And so Art, what is your purpose?
Art Costello: My purpose? Is to help others, and teach others about expectations, to use their expectations.“Our highest level of contribution is when we're in our purpose, not from a self-centered point of view, but from a self-honoring point of view.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Dr. Ken Keis: And interestingly enough, my purpose is out by others defined and to live their purpose. So in 1989, when I got into the speaking industry, what was interesting, this was way before coaching was big, but a friend of mine in Seattle referred me. He says: “I think you’re trying to figure out who you’re supposed to speak to about what.” You know, I knew I was supposed to be a communicator and an encourager of others and, I enjoyed that. Even as a teenager, I was the person who was the emcee at all the community banquets cause I was the person who could lead and do a good job as an emcee, have some fun with people, make sure that the event was positive, but I was still searching through, you know, what was my purpose. And so I hired a coach, and I drove two hours each way every month for nearly a year. And his name was Mike McManus, and he was an educator in Seattle. And he really created a program to help kids stay in school. But what he’d discovered is, most adults weren’t living their purpose. I think it’s the saddest thing Art, is that our highest level of contribution is when we’re in our purpose, not from a self center point of view, but from a self honoring point of view. And it’s not that, oh, you’re just doing it for yourself and your narcissistic. No, no. We get energy and I can’t explain it, but when, when I’m on the stage, I just finished doing all this speaking, we’re talking off air. Before we started, I was in Texas speaking in Houston and San Antonio, and across the country. Is that when I was in those audiences recently, I’m been doing this for 30 years. I was never more energized than when I was doing that, speaking for those groups, and it was interesting after 30 years and 3000 paid presentations, that it actually was more energizing than the first time says something. And my encouragement to everybody that’s listening is that, every single person has a purpose. And if you don’t know what that purpose is, then your purpose is to find your purpose. Don’t get guilty, don’t beat yourself up over it. Just simply go on a journey. That’s one of the reasons I wrote my latest book– The Quest For Purpose.– This is how to give people a framework in a step by step process, to be able to determine. You know, what am I supposed to be doing? So life leaves clues, but the challenge is most people aren’t paying attention, and we are amusing ourselves with social media, but we’re not developing ourselves. And so, how can I back away from that?, And just start taking ownership and saying, you know: “What is it that I like?” And if you can’t figure out what you like, then you can go the other side Art, where you say: “What do I don’t like?” What I don’t like?, Then so you can say: “Well, I don’t want it to be doing that.” You know, I know that I am never going to be an airplane mechanic because people would die, it just wouldn’t go well. It’s not an interest of mine. I mean, could I do it I suppose. But the reality is that’s not what I’m destined to do. You know, I can’t explain why, when I’m in front of an audience, the bigger, the better that I am just energized. It’s just a fact, just as you’ve found your purpose to help others, to encourage others. And thank you Art, for your work to serve individuals and couples, then people to go to the next level because I think it’s the sad estate when people are miserable and down.“Every single person has a purpose. And if you don't know what that purpose is, then your purpose is to find your purpose. Don't get guilty, don't beat yourself up over it. Just simply go on a journey.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: Yeah, it brings me down. I have found that I actually function better in small groups than I do in large groups, though I do like speaking to large groups, but I really love interaction. When people can get up, and close, and we can talk and exchange ideas, and everything. That’s where I really flourish, which is, you know, we’re all different, and that’s what I love about others, but how much do you think fear stops people from doing and finding their purpose?
Dr. Ken Keis: A lot actually, fear and worry is a significant player, if you actually listen to people’s language, the fear of everything seems to be out there where it, there was a statement I had on social media.– Fear is not your friend.– And the majority of the things that we worry about, never come about, and tell a story in my book about one of my staff members, she was a single mom and I get that, and it’s just very protective of her 16 year old son. But my kids grew up in a high school where they had a drag racing team. And so my son and my daughter were both chosen for the team at different years.-“The majority of the things that we worry about never come about.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: Wow.“If you live in fear, you are not going to realize your potential. It's just not going to happen.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Dr. Ken Keis: –They’re doing 120, 130 miles an hour, maybe faster at the end of the track. And so, my daughter in the second year, and she’s not even licensed to drive on the road, you know, had the fastest lap in five years on the team, you know, 120 some miles an hour at the quarter mile. And so my staff members said: “I would never let my son do that.” And I said: “Why is that?” He said: “Well, he could get hurt.” And the reality is, this fear was driving because she had sort of lost that relationship. She was now overly protective of her son. And that fear was hindering, probably some opportunities that he could do, that he could engage. And I’m not saying that, you know, we didn’t take care of the safety issues with our kids and helmets, and all those stuff, but if you live in fear, you are not going to realize your potential. It’s just not going to happen. The other one is, is that that’s happening now Art, is this worrying, which is sight of, sort of another side of fear of what other people will think, you know. Cause here’s the reality, every single person on the planet seems to have an opinion.Very few people have wisdom. And so, the last person you want to ask about,or trying to quit your job and start a new company, is somebody who has never done it. So we go and we ask people around us, or we get opinions, or we get feedback, sometimes unsolicited of course from people who have never gone down this path. Now I’m not saying that they don’t have valuable opinions about certain things. Example is, the last person I really ask about how to parent, is somebody who’s never had kids. So I’m thinking about one of my relatives whose never had kids, he’s now 70, how he talks about kids, how he interacts with them is, it’s obvious he’s never been a parent. Now, there are many people who are parents who you shouldn’t take advice from them either, just because they’re a parent, because it’s a job that you can get without applying for it. But the point being is that, are you getting advice?, Are you being mentored?, Are you being coached?, Are you getting feedback from people that have been there and done it?“Every single person on the planet seems to have an opinion. Very few people have wisdom.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: You know, we see that more and more on the Internet with life coaches and particularly here in Texas, because we do not have a lot of licensing laws. Anybody can go out and hang up shingles and say, they’re a carpenter, whatever it is, psychiatrists, I mean really, it’s very footloose here on that. But on the internet particularly, I see so many people that are out there espousing ideas that they really have no idea of what they’re talking about, and what they’re doing to other people. A lot of the business consultants that are out there have really never owned a business, but you can say anything on the Internet, you know? I mean really, and it’s very dangerous, I think.
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I know that you do a lot of work in relationships and it’s interesting how, and again, you know, I have to be careful how I say this, but people go to get feedback, or support from other people who have been through, you know, let’s say they’ve been through a separation and you are struggling in relationships. Should I really go to somebody else whose relationship ended in a break?, Or should I go to somebody who was able to reconcile? Point being is, what were the steps you went through, can to be able to reconcile. So I’m thinking about friends of mine who, she actually wrote the book– My Husband’s Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me.– And so they were on Oprah two or three times. Now they actually run marriage seminars on betrayal. Well, I think they have a little bit of credibility because they went through it themselves. She wrote a book on it, and now they teach other couples how to really overcome this traumatic event that has occurred in their relationships so that they can reconcile. So that would be an example of credibility, you know, when in the marketplace and people that are living at, and able to serve others on that space.
Art Costello: I totally read that. I think sometimes the practical experience of going through an event trauma, any number of them that are events that happen in our lives, having gone through it is actually more of an education than going to come. I’ve learned far more outside of the academic world than I have inside of it.
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, even though I have my doctorate degree Art, I call academics the abyss, and you know, practicality, a lot of times there’s not a reality check in those spaces, right?
Art Costello: I agree. You wrote a book and you titled it,– Why Aren’t You More Like Me?– that was about that, I really loved that title (laughs).
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, when we think about, one of our expertise as a company is, we have our own personality, or personal style assessment. And our belief is this, is that every single person listening to this show has a different personal style or personality. And what that means is, we call it your natural preferences. So there’s some people, you know, no matter what, they’re always late. They just don’t seem to have a consciousness around time. There are some people, no matter what you is going on, they’re always early. And then there’s other individuals who love to tinker around things in mechanics, but they don’t like people. And there’s individuals that they just love people, but they never get the things done, (laughs) right. So this is where you come on over to my house. But you know that they haven’t cleaned in about seven years, or other individuals who have cleaned every seven minutes. But you know, don’t touch anything so it doesn’t get in the way. So we believe that personal style, and in fact there was an independent study by talent smart. You know, why aren’t you more like me? Here’s premises, that all of us are uniquely wired at birth. Now we ask the question, are you in nature?, Or are you nurture? So are you born a certain way?, Or does your environment shape you? And our answer is, it’s both. And so we have several factors that contribute to my personhood, and who I am, and what I prefer, and what we believe. And this is why a very high percentage of people we believe, dislike their work for [inaudible] irritate to load, is the nature of the work is not aligned with the nature of the person. So personal style, or personality is different than purpose, Art. Purposes is overarching sort of philosophy or vision. So for me, if my purpose is to help others find their purpose, my personal style or personality is how I go about doing and how I like to go about doing it. And how I like to live life. We believe that my life is sustainable and energizing. If I’m in a role and responsibility that matches the nature of who I am. If I’m in a role that isn’t a job fit or isn’t a personality fit, then I can’t sustain engagement. You know? So Gallup that is study and said: “Out of 142 countries, only 13% of the global workforce is even engaged.” We get into some Asian countries, it’s 5 and 6%. The highest engagement is in the US and Canada at 29 so still, you know, 70% plus of people dislike what they do. Now there could be other things around interests.“I do believe that personal style or personality assessments should not determine a career, but it does determine the nature of the role within the career.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
And let’s go back to your other comment about fear. A lot of times people love the certainty of misery versus the misery of uncertainty. They rather stay with this miserable job cause I’ve got a paycheck. Then leave it and try and find something else that’s more fulfilling. And I think that’s a disservice to all of us, especially the person. So personal style, even from a parenting point of view, or from a couple point of view. So we tend to, not always, but in a lot of cases we marry opposites. And so what attracted you to that other individual that was engaging? That’s awesome. And now that’s the number one irritant in your relationship, right? So, I might not be detailed oriented, they are, they need lots of time to plan your spontaneous. You just want to go to the movie now, and you’re deciding, and you know while you’re putting your jacket on as you go out the house, what movie you’re going to go to. The other person says well we need to look at all the reviews, and what’s a possibility, and where are the different shows, and which theater we’re going to go to. It’s a full day event to decide which movie to go to. So part of what we’re trying to teach, and why, or tomorrow, like me, not only do we want to have self honoring saying who am I, and own my space cause a lot of times when I was growing up, my dad always criticized me for talking too much. Now I actually get paid to do it. So one side is to honor herself from a self honoring point of view, and accept self, and to validate self. The other side is to really understand the differences in people. So, I love your show’s name around expectations, and a lot of times people get frustrated, angry, or upset, or hooked with other people because my behavior didn’t meet your expectation.“A lot of times people love the certainty of misery versus the misery of uncertainty… Then leave it and try and find something else that's more fulfilling. And I think that's a disservice to all of us, especially the person.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: (laughs).“The problem is most people practice being irritated… We’re practicing this sort of negative response and then we bring that into our relationships and we wonder why people don't like us or we don't get along with other individuals.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Dr. Ken Keis: Is that somehow or other, you are supposed to be doing something differently. You’re supposed to do it quicker. You’re supposed to do it slower. You’re supposed to do it this way instead of that way, you’re supposed to do this. And so usually we get upset or hooked, or even things like road rage, right? Is because somebody didn’t do something the way that I expected them to do it. So you know, even Andy Stanley talks about this, is that a lot of conflict of relationships, in fact, most of it is around unmet expectations. The problem is, is that most people don’t have the same expectations as you have for me, or they’re not aligned to it. So what I’m teaching you in the book is, how can I accept and understand others? And we teach a step, and I say this is the most difficult human being action, we teach you to suspend. In other words, nobody offends you. Nobody upsets you. Nobody creates this irritation on you unless you let that happen to yourself. You are 100% responsible for your response. And I said: “Oh, people hate that. They disliked that. It says, no, you made me angry. No, no, no, no. I made myself angry.” You know, I decided, I’m not saying that what they did was okay, or was appropriate, or is even right, but my response is always in my control. And the problem is most people practice being irritated. You get upset with your computer, you get upset with your car, you get upset with technology, it doesn’t work. And so we’re practicing this sort of negative response, and then we bring that into our relationships,and we wonder why people don’t like us, or we don’t get along with other individuals. So this sort of interpersonal skills. Now, the whole research around the importance of emotional intelligence is all over the map. And that’s what, why aren’t you more like me as a boat is, you know, what is your emotional intelligence? What are your social intelligence? I’m actually quite shocked sometimes just the lack of interpersonal communication, emotional intelligence that many or most people don’t have.“It's about managing what your processes are and what your thoughts and how you express them. I think it's the key to happiness.” –Art Costello Click To Tweet
Art Costello: Yeah, I’m huge in emotional intelligence because, you can’t manage yourself if you cannot identify that your emotions, and what your feelings are,and do it accurately. And a lot of what I do around Expectation Therapy, is working with building confidence in your decision making process, and accepting responsibility for your expectations, and how you manage them. We’re a lot about management, which is exactly what in line with what you do. It’s about managing what your processes are, and what your thoughts, and how you express them, which is beautiful. I mean, I think it’s the key to happiness. If you can learn how to manage your emotional intelligence and your feelings, and identify him, and stop trying to change somebody because you cannot be responsible for changing anybody except yourself. Any feelings on that?“If you can learn how to manage your emotional intelligence and your feelings and identify them and stop trying to change somebody because you cannot be responsible for changing anybody except yourself.” –Art Costello Click To Tweet
Dr. Ken Keis: Don’t get me started. That’s another hour show. You know Mort Fertel, wrote the book, marriage fitness, right? And one of the things he says, the number one error in partners is trying to change the other person. And the rallies, we can’t, if I’m an employer and I’m trying to manage my employee, and help them to update their behavior, I get that. But in general in life, we can’t change any other person, trying to change the other person actually creates a significant amount of stress in the relationship because this goes back to your expectations. So part of the purpose of the book– Why Aren’t You More Like Me, is to move into this acceptance and even to get out of self-centeredness and say: “What does Art need from me?” In Other words, I’m not changing my personhood because we believe your personal style is something that’s consistent throughout your lifetime.“You can't manage yourself if you cannot identify your emotions and what your feelings are and do it accurately.” –Art Costello Click To Tweet
It doesn’t change my personality or totality of who I am does because of maturity and education and spirituality, all these things. But my preference is stay consistent. And here’s why this is important. I can count on me being me tomorrow so that I don’t have this sort of chaotic mindset. But on the other hand, I also get to know art. I says, what does art need from me now? So in other words, do I need to slow down so I can build a relationship with art? And so we teach this concept of credibility and that credibility is behavior I do. And also behavior I don’t do. And every single person listening to this show has a level of credibility with everybody. You know, if you want it or not, your credibility is set. It’s the price you pay for showing up. So as a boss, as a friend, as a significant other, as a parent, as a child, whatever context it is, every single person on the planet has a level of credibility with the other people that they know. The reality is most people don’t know. And as you talked about before, you know one of my colleagues, Tasha, who’s written the New York Times best seller insights, self-awareness is most people are not self-aware. So you’d love this research, Tasha did research for her book. So what percentage of people believe that they know themselves, Art?, And how they see themselves?, And how they show up is congruent with how I see you. So 95% of the population, so those of you listening, 95% of you believe that you know yourself, and you know yourself well, and how you see yourself, and how you come across is congruent, or the same as how other people opinion about you. But here’s the reality. When she had her students go out for a year, Art, just guess what percentage of people perception of self self-awareness was actually congruent without everybody else saw them. What do you think the number was?
Art Costello: 18%.
Dr. Ken Keis: You’re close, it’s 10%. 10%, so 85% of individuals are delusional, or misrepresent, or really don’t have a clue about how they are seen by others, or how they show up, so they are not self aware. Then of course we have two additional steps which you’ve already alluded to and that is self awareness is step one, so I’m conscious and aware of what I’m doing, or not doing. But the next two are self management, how do I manage self? Which is what you were teaching. And then number three is self-mastery, how do I actually develop this muscle to a point where I can actually be in control of self without even thinking about it? I have developed this sort of Olympic athletic [inaudible] if I may, around this managing myself and my responses, et cetera.“Nobody offends you, nobody upsets you, nobody creates this irritation on you unless you let that happen to yourself. You are 100% responsible for your response.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: One of the things that I really resonated with you is when you said that 10% of the people are delusional about it, do you think that it’s because we have become accustomed to lying to ourselves?
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I never really thought about it. A lot of times I think people don’t know that they don’t know, and I do believe that in some cases that, it’s more important about how we look than how we really, really, really feel. In other words, we have this persona, right. This sort of fraudulent self in being sort of open and authentic is not there. I mean, even if we think about social media and what it’s doing to people, I mean the Millennials, and I’m, by the way, I’m the parent of Millennials, so I have some authority on this set. That generation is the loneliest and most oppressed in history, and part of this whole thing is this persona online about, what do I need to look like? Do I get enough likes? Do I try to get this dopamine hit in? That’s why mindfulness, or self-awareness, or just being grounded and centered is coming back because, well, there’s a study done, sorry to jump around here but in China, 400 million people are addicted to their devices, so it’s video games, or it’s their phone. Even myself, so people that are listening now, if you’re listening to your phone, keep it on, that’s fine, that’s perfect. But sometime in the next week or two, take your phone and set it aside for five hours. I mean you are unleaded cases. If I lose my phone cause I do my business on it Art, it’s a traumatic event, right?, it’s like whoa. So to be able to take that phone and set it aside. Now as parents, we figured this out fairly early. Now, not everybody would agree with us, but our kids right up until they left home, or until they graduated high school, their phones could not be in their rooms overnight. So we took the phones and they could be plugged in outside, you know, in their bathroom or whatever. But they could not have their phones in their room overnight. I remember once when we forgot that and our son, he had like 250 texts in that one night alone just between friends at 2:00 o’clock in the morning, right. So this is ridiculous, you need to get your sleep, get out of that place and turn your notifications off because it’s such a distraction for you to be able to even focus. And if you’re in the working world, we know that once you’re distracted, it takes 10-15 minutes to get you back to the same concentration levels. So you are never optimizing your performance.
Art Costello: Ehmm, we’re so addicted to our devices now, I’m not sure, I don’t know if very many people that can put their device down for five hours. I mean, I go to church and I see people like, church texting and I’m not talking about millennials, I’m talking about adult people. You know, that just can’t get off of it, it’s become so ingrained in them.
Dr. Ken Keis: Of course, many of us use it for, you know, if somebody has a bible app, or whatever they’re on it for that. And the next thing you know, a text comes in so of course you’re going to respond to it. It’s just sort of the nature of the beast that your whole life has sort of controlled in this one device. You know, I didn’t do email on my phone until a couple of months ago and just because I travel a lot, it was just easier to have it on the phone. To try to boot up my computer in the middle of an airport, which might or might not connect to Wifi, so I get the convenience. I understand that, but we also want to understand that when you’re addicted, the first thing is to admit that you’re addicted–
Art Costello: (laughs).
Dr. Ken Keis: –So if you’re an alcoholic, the first part to trying to get off of that is to say, I’m addicted to alcohol. Well, no, I’m not addicted to my device. Okay, we’ll set it aside. I would say that it would be difficult for me Art, just because I’m connected to it all the time for business purposes, but I can’t use that as an excuse. I should be able to take that on a Saturday or Sunday. The life is not going to pass me by. Set it aside in a way you go with it.
Art Costello: Yeah, one of the things I wanted to ask you before we run short on time was that, when you were telling me your history, you had mentioned that as, I think you said–
Dr. Ken Keis: My grade nine English teacher, yes.
Art Costello: –that is a real issue with me because I was told the same thing. I wasn’t going to amount to a hill of beans and all that. And it wasn’t because I wasn’t able to read like you were. And with this Lexia, I commend you for really overcoming it and achieving. But with me, it was the status of my family and the community. And when I do your show, will get into this in more depth, but it was the status of my family and the community, and I was suppressed across the board. And what my question is, did you actually find power in that teacher telling you that? Did you work harder to achieve, to prove?
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I think in high school, I really did struggle with myself worth a lot. I was the rural kid in a city school, we were very small town, I mean 25,000 people, but I still came off the farm, the rest of the kids were mostly from town. Even when I went to agriculture college, my behavior was acting out because I wanted to be liked. So you try harder instead of just being comfortable in your own skin, you’re needing approval of others. So you know, when we do this show, my dad is still alive. He’s 87 he’ll never watch this or listen to this, so I don’t have to worry about it. But to this day he has never told me that he loves me, I know that he does. And Eastern European culture is that, you don’t verbalize that. Now what I do is, I stick my son and daughter on him. Say: “Grandpa, we really love you. You’re amazing.” And you know, they just tell them that they love him all the time. And then grandpa’s actually almost awkward. He’s almost sort of struggling with that kind of receipt. Now, his mum was very critical, I knew my grandmother a little bit before she passed away. His Dad died when he was 16, his eldest brother die when he was 17, so he hasn’t had an easy goat to do it. So when I got older, I’d start to understand, you know, my dad really doesn’t know how to manage his emotions. I couldn’t imagine what it’d be like at 16 to kind of have your whole family turn upside down. However, it still has affected me, and you know, all of us have sort of this family of origin that comes into it. So my encouragement is, and I think Art, what you were trying to say too, is never underestimate the power of an encouraging word or a discouraging word at anytime in any person’s life because, especially if you’re in a place of leadership and they’re vulnerable in some form or another, is I think a lot of times people underestimate the influence they might have.“Never underestimate the power of an encouraging word or a discouraging word at anytime and any person's life especially if you're in a place of leadership and they're vulnerable in some form or another. I think a lot of times people… Click To Tweet
I just actually did some podcast recordings yesterday. Art, before we were recording this one, in one of the individuals who’s now a registered psychologist, he said: “You know what, a grade 10 teacher saved me. My family was dysfunctional. Dad was angry. It was abusive, but this lady believed in me.” And in fact he’s now in his 50’s, and he still remembers the name of this teacher as one of the single people that was encouraging him and helping him to go to the next level. And so now he’s written a book and been successful, and as you and I are doing, helping other people to sort of realize their potential and see what’s possible, and we would do it for free but it’s just our calling, it’s what we’re supposed to do. So, I would just encourage everybody that’s listening out there. If you’re a parent, just never ever go to say, you know, say to your kid, you’ll never amount to anything, you can discipline behavior. You know what, Art, they doing that to your brothers, that’s not okay, but you don’t attack Art’s personhood based on a behavior. This is like Communications 101, but most of us when we get angry we want to attack that other person. And that does sort of disclose the lower self worth, or lower development level of that individual.
Art Costello: Yeah, I’m huge into labeling. You know, we wear and live the labels that are placed on us, and you have to really be careful of how and what you say to people, particularly children because they take it in, and suck it in, and it becomes, they begin to believe, it’s their belief system that gets assaulted or nourished, it is the other way. I mean, it goes both ways. You can be, there’s kind words and there’s harsh words. So I think it’s really, really important. I mean, teachers I hear all the time, you know, well they address their students, well so-and-so and so are going to be the leaders of the group, you know?
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, even when you know, we have another, assessment, you know, a learning style, and instructional style, and we have a program, you know, why don’t you teach the way that I learn. So, you know, it’s based on the work of debarge more like me, and my son in grade eight, he’s a very verbal, outgoing individual. That the teacher was beside herself. Well, her style was one of controls in compliance. While here he is, he’s Grade Eight, 12, 13 year old boy going through all these things. I don’t care, I mean the boys are different regardless of what other people say, that’s the biological truth. And as a result of that, of course she’s a new teacher, so she’s trying to control him. He’s trying to talk more. He was almost six feet at that time and he says: “Dad, if she says another word, I’m going to pound her.” And so that’s how frustrated he was. And so I was actually now get this, I was a chair of the school board, so I intervened, and what we did is, we had a meeting and started to help her understand, the more that she was trying to have him be compliant and control, the more that was frustrating him, the more that he was being outspoken, the more it was frustrating her. And so, he came home about a month later after the meeting, he says: “Dad, I’ve learned something.” And I say: “What’s that?” He said: “I’ve learned how to shut up.” And we also helped her to understand that his engagement level is being verbal. Well now, you know at 24 he’s a very successful realtor, one of the youngest realtors in the marketplace doing very, very well. And his communication skills in engaging and networking with others is the core of his success. So the teacher could have really crushed him. The other thing is, my wife’s a teacher, and when we were working with our kids in studying, my son needed to study with somebody else because he was so people oriented, my daughter on the other hand, if you came into her room, she would just get angry with you because: “I need my own private space. I need to study in my own way. I don’t need you.” My son, another hand. If we didn’t get involved, he would just procrastinate forever. So we knew this about personhood, we knew about personalities, we knew about different learning styles and we address that. And so both of them have been very, very successful individuals as young adults. But as parents, if we didn’t know this, I’m not sure how that would have affected them.
Art Costello: Yeah. And most parents don’t know that about their children. Most parents can’t assess, like you have the ability to assess both the teacher and themselves, and facilitated, or mediated an agreement that they both could come to make it happen. You know, because we see it all the time in the school system where, these kids get centered the attention and you know, because they’re acting out. And a lot of times it is because we haven’t set up a system. Even the counselors don’t know. Can you give us any quick tips for assessing students and teacher?
Dr. Ken Keis: Well of course obviously I have a bias that, why aren’t you more like me, get the book and then the back of the book actually is a free assessment. So our personality assessment is included. it’s complimentary, it’s normally $45, but part of it is as people are leaving clues, we use our models. So we use a thing called Extraversion and Introversion, but it’s not what people think, it has nothing to do with people. Extraversion and Introversion in our model is how I see the environment. So extroverts try to tell the environment what to do, want to be in control of it, and are not intimidated by it, and need to engage with to feel alive. Introverts on the other hand, are more compliant to what the environment as, in they are more reactionary or responsive. There are some people who are task oriented, and some people who are people oriented. So which is it?, Meaning, are they mostly around the relationships?, Are they mostly around what they’re doing? And then the last one that we talk about in this criteria is around, are they verbal?, Or nonverbal? Now what we mean by that, is the amount of language they use, both spoken and written to communicate something. So if a person is extroverted, and non verbal, and task oriented, then that’s what we call our behavioral action individual. And so people are constantly leaving clues, I teach in the book one of the chapters on how to read other people. People are within three, four, or five minutes. You already know who that person is. And so we’ve set up a framework, we call it translating, or reading others, and we give you a system to be able to do it, and you can know who those people are pretty clearly. Then we also have definitions of the four different dimensions that we have, now most of us, or almost all of us are blends of it. That’s where I disagree with some of these other personality assessments are, and why ours was created, is that the majority of us are a blend or combination thereof. So there are some people who are both introverted and extroverted. This idea that some people are one or the other No-no, some of us are actually quite balanced, and some of us are quite balanced between task and people. I am, so even though I love an audience, I also consider my office for four, or five hours writing something on my own, and I don’t need anybody else around me. On the other hand, I could be in an audience of a thousand people in speaking, and I quite enjoy it as well. And so this sort of self-awareness, our model helps people. So we really focus on the development, rather than testing and trying to put you in a box. I really dislike that idea, is that I get to have this consciousness about itself and then go from there. So I know this is the quickest, quick, quick way to to help the audience. And it’s a five hour seminar that I just did in four minutes.
Art Costello: (laughs) When my head is just going, I mean my brain is going, because when you were speaking, I was thinking about, wow, I’m a little bit of all that, you know, and I’m very blended in that.
Dr. Ken Keis: In part of when people complete our assessment, we actually have one of our profiles, is that you are blended with all four. And many of the other assessments, actually what they do is they say: “If you’re blended in your balance between all four of them, well, you don’t exist and you’ve obviously completed the assessment wrong.” And so we get angry with that, and we said: “That’s five to 10% of the population.” And then we have another one were three of our dimensions are blended together. So when we add those together, over 30% of the population is actually not even represented, or honored, or validated, and many of the other tools that are out there like, and so that was one of the reasons we created is, we really wanted to honor the diversity that people have out there. And as you said, are you allowed to be blended Art? Absolutely. And I also do believe this, and this is my spiritual, my faith spot is that you are perfectly, your personal style, is the perfect combination for the assignments that you have been given, or your purpose in life. So I don’t think there are accidents in, either you believe that there’s something bigger going on or there’s not, and my encouragement that there is, and that you have the perfect personal style. If we’re all the same, imagine you know somebody who’s got to be an auditor for an accounting company, and just has to dive into numbers and excel sheets for days. Being people oriented, that’s not a fair expectation. Or I take this person who is this analytical person, and now I’m going to make them the PR person for a company. You know, that’s not really a fair expectation of them because every day their water glass is empty. It’s not nourishing them, it’s draining them. And so they shouldn’t feel guilty about that. They should just really be conscious about it, and then be intentional, and deliberate in their career path, and their relationships, and their roles. I do believe that personal style, or personality assessments should not determine a career, but it does determine the nature of the role within the career. Meaning, there’s all kinds of styles of teachers, there’s all kinds of style for speakers. The reality is how I go about doing it is uniquely mine, and that means to be honored.“Your personal style is the perfect combination for the assignments that you have been given or your purpose in life. So I don't think there are accidents… You have the perfect personal style.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: It brings to thought with me, here in Texas we have what is called the star tests for assessing grade levels and development across there, and what we have, or what I have seen more and more of, is the teachers here are teaching to the star test and not teaching to the individual student. In other words, the teachers are actually rewarded on the percentage of students passing the staar test, and not on the actual growth that their child over are receiving, and education they’re receiving. And I think that it’s really sad because–
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, think about your show name, expectations. What’s the expectations given to the teachers? Right. Their expectation is, the more that these people pass, the better the job you’re doing. So, we shouldn’t be surprised that their behavior is following sort of the expectations of path that administration is giving to them. You know? And as a school board chair, I said one of the things we changed, our motto is, is that this is around student success, is that, if the student doesn’t succeed, period, then we haven’t done our job. And very few people really get that concept, or get that idea. There’s even people debunking this, the concept of learning styles. And I remember getting in an argument with another professor. So I don’t believe those things exist, and research show that. So hang on, I have two kids. I ain’t going to tell you from personal experience, they exist and they’re real. And if you think they’re not because of your quote, unquote research study, you go ahead. But you are dishonoring the kids. Also, there’s different teaching styles. So you know, part of instructors being responsible is, you know, that’s why we created this program. Why don’t you teach the way that I learn? Because it’s the responsibility of the teacher for people to learn. It’s not the responsibility of the learner to capture it. I’m an adult, I’m the person that’s trying to give you information. Most classes are compliant to our inverted model, meaning, we created a word called suitability. So introverted people in our model, which is, again the orientation to the environment. Biologically they have more stability. So what does education want in the current format? In the developed world, it wants compliance. Don’t move, don’t talk, don’t whatever. So if I’m extroverted, I actually have to move to learn. I need to interact, to learn what does the system want? It doesn’t want me to do it. So this is where, hey, by the way, I was at the principal’s office more than once Art (laughs).“It's the responsibility of the teacher for people to learn. It's not the responsibility of the learner to capture it.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: (laughs).
Dr. Ken Keis: It hurt, you know, that was when there was still the strap was still there, right. It because I was having fun, I was enjoying myself. So I wasn’t dissimilar to my son, though, my son is even more sort of gregarious and outgoing than I am as far as the people side. But the reality is, the system is really set up for many styles to fail. And why should we be shocked at that, that we’re not really honoring the diversity even within our own education system.
Art Costello: Why there’s so much that –(laughs)– I not only agree with but, it just gets my brain going, so many issues.
Dr. Ken Keis: Well Art, I suppose I even stand here and I’d just, for those of you that listing and you know, I don’t necessarily apologize, but we have covered a lot of different topics and you know, I never would have thought here at my age now, you know 30 years into this profession, that I’ve would have written all that content. You know, I conduct our certification for our assessments for other professionals. You don’t need certification to use them. But I’ve been doing that now for 15 years, and it’s almost like, this is what I do every day, and that’s why it’s sore on the top of my head. And it’s a passion that we believe in developing the whole person. And so, any single assessment, or any sort of single area is not really honoring the diversity. So your health and wellness, you know, I’m a wellness coach as well, and have a diploma in nutrition and genetics. And a lot of times now in the developed world, we’re sick, we’re eating processed foods, we’re having sugar. Kids are acting out because they’re not healthy. They can’t concentrate because of that. They don’t work out. So again, their adrenaline levels, and their health levels, it makes them less able to concentrate. They have these dopamine highs from social media on their phone and now they can’t. They have ADHD because of the devices, not because they were born that way. And then I have my personal style, and what is it? And do I honor it, and then what are my core values? And can I be, so we look at all my self worth levels. So all of these work together, really to develop the whole person rather than any single component. You know, if you go to your car, there’s lots of different components. There’s the tires, there’s the engine, there’s all the brake system, all these different things that need to run together perfectly so that it will function. Why wouldn’t we treat ourselves the same way?“We believe in developing the whole person. And so any single assessment or any sort of single area is not really honoring the diversity.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: I mean, I’m just, I’m really honored that I have you on, because I think this is really, really helpful to the audience that I have, and I’m going to encourage them. And we’re running out of time, and I wanted to give you at least five, or so minutes to give us your closing thoughts and ideas, and where they can get ahold of you?, Whats your website?, You know all the details.“You matter… You need to do the work to get clear. If you are unclear, that is your work.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Dr. Ken Keis: Well, I’m going to give a free gift to everybody so you’ll go to my speakers site. And so we have several different sites. So Ken Keis is spelled K-E-N-K-E-I-S.C-O-M/EXPECTATIONS. And so, at that hidden URL, we’re going to be able to give you a free copy of my book, The Quest For Purpose as a download. And so you can look at that. And then you know we have whyarentyoumorelikeme.com, which is the book that we’ve been talking about personalities and the different styles. So, when I think about all that we’ve talked about Art, again, first of all, all of us, I believe that everybody here’s for a reason, that it’s a positive reason. Everybody has a purpose. But the responsibility to live my life, is with every single person listening to this show. You know, if my life isn’t going in the direction that I want it to, you can’t blame anybody else that’s up for yourself. Yes, we’ve all had stuff happen.“You can't blame anybody else that's up for yourself.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
You know, I don’t, didn’t even talk about, my girlfriend when I was in my 20’s, early 20’s was murdered by a friend of mine. So, all of us have our story about traumatic events that happen. So we can’t, yes, we learned from that, what we want is to be able to move forward. So every single person has purpose. If you don’t know your purpose and your purpose is to find your purpose. The other one is, I was interviewing and working with Richard Nelson Bolles who wrote the book, What Color Is Your Parachute? And I said, why are there so many people are miserable? And Richard was 80 something at that time. And he said to me: “It’s Don passed away.” He said: “Ken, because people have not been willing to do the work.” I spent weeks and months and in fact years to sort of refining my direction of life. Just as you have Art, at 63 you could have quit, you could have, is that now my life partner who I love is gone. You could have quit, but no, no, you still are making a difference. I always joke that Moses was 80 before his first real job, so you haven’t even like, even gotten close to start it. So as part of this, every single person listening to this, you matter, every single person, you need to do the work to get clear. If you are unclear, that is your work. And then seek out coaches and professionals who know what they’re talking about, who have expertise to be able to help you with this journey. Just as Mike McManus helped me way back in 1989, and then different coaches over the years, I’ve been to hundreds and hundreds of hours of training, and I have a podcast that I listened to, or several actually every single day. It’s how I can sort of consume learning as part of it. So be committed to developing yourself to serving, allow yourself to fail along the way. Figuring out what you don’t want to do, take that off the list, and move towards at a higher level contribution so that you can feel fulfilled. Is life perfect?, No. Is stuff’s still going to happen?, Yes. But that doesn’t matter. How could I have the majority of it, really reflecting my call, my purpose, my passion so that you can serve and support others. Now from a self centered point of view, but from a self honoring point of view.“So be committed to developing yourself, to serving. Allow yourself to fail along the way, figuring out what you don't want to do. Take that off the list and move towards at a higher level contribution so that you can feel fulfilled his life.”… Click To Tweet
Art Costello: Those are powerful words right there. I mean those are what I call difference makers. So everybody, just thank you Dr. Ken, and just really folks, I’m gonna encourage you to get a hold of his books and start devouring this because this is life changing, and that’s what we want to do. Thank you again, Dr. Ken.
Dr. Ken Keis: Thank you Art, and thank you for your work, and thank you everybody for listening. Just go make this all worthwhile by making a choice to do something.“Go make this all worthwhile by making a choice to do something.” –Dr. Ken Keis Click To Tweet
Art Costello: That is it, a choice to do something, become a doer, become a doer. That’s what I always say. A lot of people talk about it. Very few people go out and do it. So let’s become doers everybody, and let us get on with life and become doers all over the face of the earth.“A lot of people talk about it; very few people go out and do it. So let's become doers.” –Art Costello Click To Tweet
About Dr. Ken Keis
“You will not amount to anything,” said his grade 9 teacher. But who is Dr. Ken Keis now?- The President and CEO of Consulting Resource Group, Inc., heralded by many professionals as Number 1 Global Resource Center for Personal and Professional Development. This year marks his 30th year in the leadership training industry. Hailed as one of the most passionate presenters, Dr. Ken is also an author, Internet Radio Host, TV and Radio Guest and an Inspirational Seminar Speaker. His purpose in life is to help others find their purpose and develop holistically.
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